Classic Literature Book Club: Madame Bovary - elleneaune

Classic Literature Book Club: Madame Bovary – elleneaune

okay okie dokie so alright shall we begin okay so this is a book club and yeah and we're going to be discussing and today and Madame Bovary Oh No mine is the wrong way around isn't it okay you put putting up your own foot obvious to the screen okay it's Madame Bovary or Madame Bovary by Gustave Flaubert and yeah yeah a little bit about the author so I don't know a whole lot but there he was there he lived in and around ryeong which is in northern France the time period that the dotted say it's kind of like you know not really artistic time in in Paris especially where we're like so they've had a revolution and they've had a kind of restoration so um that's yeah and that's the and that's kind the background of it and it's like an Oscar even forms the author's background like flow bear he was very like he was definitely after tart of the time and he's known for his realism so we'll probably just go start of a and let me have a look at my notes he was critical of the bourgeois and aspects of religion and kind of society at a time you know which I think comes through a bit in the book I think I went like this book came out oh yeah this this book was done for obscenity yeah and but it was it was allowed to be published in the end and it was quite obscene you know anyway uh what would you give a brief summary of the book I guess yeah yeah do you want to start starts with Cheryl or Charles whatever and he's a like second-rate doctor he's not a great dog or whatever and his mom marries him off to a widow but then he's treating a patient and he starts falling part of daughter I'm AB oh ma and then when his widow when his wife dies the first thing so the first Madame Bovary yeah well the second because the first one is his mother it gets confusing in the book it's very books lot aromas whatever is expecting a grand romance of her marriage and she creepy because I'm satisfied with it yes so she has two affairs kind of two extreme Affairs in her life in her pursuit of romance basically and romance like in the not just in the love sense but in fantastic adventure and excitement and wealth as well she she has it she has a taste for the finer things in life anyway so yeah we'll just jump into the discussion okay so we just finished this recently actually we just finished this yesterday we finished the book yesterday so it's fresh in our minds and we haven't spoken a lot about it so my interest in know what Utah cuz they well and I don't know she's very the book she's very like very fickle with recreates herself Allah after each tragedy she tragedy seemed like the day off like the day after her wedding like she's immediately like not feeling satisfied like and she kind of starts wanting all this romance taking over dating and then she just becomes very very moody and all the time with all her tragedies yeah she's just very annoying she thinks she's supposed to be kind of annoying though she's not superb like you think she was written to be an annoying character then you're kind of supposed to roll your eyes either I think so cuz she is like quite young like quite a time and like Charles her husband has gone through a lot quite a time he marries her even yeah yeah I'm like he's been married he's been widowed she saw his first wife didn't Papa she dies like she loves me oh yeah well she just might have ovaries I know she's just fair she's very just changed her mind and then she just all the time recreates herself all the time comes like fast like obsessed with one ting and kind of sticks with that after something bad happens to her and she like it comes very like unsatisfied with Charles from Sharon or whatever quickly and like she starts to kind of hate him a lot and there's even it I took there's even a section in where she's like oh I wish he yeah she's like oh she wants because I like he he's not he like it drawers her like a donor and all that I'm like he oh he's always worried about her like when she first starts her and her life with being unhappy and all like he moves her today he's like oh we should move I take a change to you to y'all feel yeah and that's one day moving like he really looks after and she's just not yeah I mean she wasn't it like drought to book the only team that kind of separates her from like order but the other females you know dire Darius is she's considered beautiful kind of you know I mean we read all of her like first person she has an affair with his whole Yogi's like she's the most beautiful woman he would have he could have an affair like that's why he keeps her around it's not that like she's rich or anything it's like oh she's more yeah I don't think she ever she never comment stuff on that herself Rishi never comments on her own physicality so yeah so you really do get the sense that she's quite self entitled because even if she had ever commented on say oh I'm beautiful I I'm entitled is pushing never do it so she just feels like she's naturally entitled to a life of adventure and wealth and the Brewers were kind of platform you know um do you think she's complex or does she imagined herself to be complex I think I think complex and like if you look at it through her perspective it's complex but when you really just look at it like you're like she's just very and like she's very unsatisfied and on a happy with her situation and that is just a root of it all and everything else she does is just a result of that and I like everything else that she like the way she acts all her like when she goes like religious and all and other stuff it's just because of stems from all her being just unsatisfied way so I don't think she's that yeah so like to just like yeah I mean just to give a little background she kind of so she's kind of young and kind of carefree shoe she was educated in a convent where she was kind of young carefree and yeah but boy time she left she wasn't really well-liked by the nuns because because of that kind of boisterous attitude then she went to the farms where her dad and she was very bored she got married to Cheryl and for a day she was happy and then she was bored then she and the fairy Rudolph know that she fell in love with this guy called Leon well he would they know he came of it with but just like you do you don't really know when when he when he leaves at first you don't really know because since it's all from her perspective you don't mean yeah so then she doesn't the favorite Rudolph is gonna run off with him he kind of teaches are at the last minute I mean yeah yeah yeah he was like Easter he knew how to get her yeah and then she turns to religion kind of then she turns back to Christ then she kind of turns back to craziness back to depression isn't it did she that's buying stuff isn't it and then they go to an opera and ivory Knights her passion a bit yeah Lilliana again an affair number two begins and it's the same thing all over again like yeah she seems to like basic she does the exact same treat tink boom wood with the tree Manor in life she does the exact same tree Tings she has she because she a bit we shall she were like before she was married to me she probably fantasized about him the same way she fantasized about the other man yeah so she basically yeah she doesn't really know her place for a lack of a better term which is unfortunate but she's very out of torture reality yeah and even like at the end when like when she's having her affairs it has to be Affairs in luxury yeah she wants to go to the hotel yeah she insists on going to the hotel and everyone else like we can go like anywhere she's like no I'll page difference I'll do all this yeah yeah whoo yeah I mean we're gonna be talking a lot about her cuz the whole novel is about her basically yeah well yeah like an even he also like another king when she gets like disappointed is as well he's like you know she went she Moo's like one day first move they find him she's pregnant and I when she gives birth she's just all so immediately satisfied with her whole we're sorry that you broke up a bit there she's like she's immediately just decides find the waterhole oh yes yeah uh yes she's a she's a package to like unfold like she's definitely I think she's definitely like we're like studying and I think it's worth like the amount of kind of interest in novel has yeah it's definitely a understandable but like maybe we should just talk about like briefly the male characters because they're not as developed I would like the primary like hurt her her her loves you know her objects of affection if briefly like yeah like what are our impressions of the male characters cuz she paints them all out in the end to be quite devilish you know yeah at the end she hates she like has a few yolks about her she hates all men she's like oh I hate if I could crush them all and stuff like that which laid yeah so like their Cheryl Cheryl Bovary and he them he's quite simple he doesn't have any ambition but all the men she goes after none of them really have ambition she tink stayed you are desirable did Rudolf have re ambition ordered that staying in his house and having many mistresses that's not really ambition and Leon he went to Paris to study but then he came back to grew on and he couldn't really he couldn't really get off his feet he was kind of like he was he had he was kind of shy wasn't he yeah and then he like even when he's thinking of ending no time I kind of settle down and you know just I don't know what he said he was gonna be like head clerk yeah he was having pressure from his mother and his employer as well like like I think even at the start of book you like he was very pitiable yeah like he's bullied as soon as he comes he fails his exam like he doesn't want to be a doctor he kind of gets passed around by yes stupid definitely stuck under his motors for his relationship with women is very submissive yeah and maybe that's a bit of a slight on him like cuz at the time to be like that it's not respectable at all you know I like very like just she was so rude like she would say like cute straight up state him like get away from your oh you embarrass me more stop fidgeting like even before when she goes to that first party and oh she tells not to dance isn't he yeah and like even she's there sitting having dinner she's like she's very critical of him yeah so I I feel sorry for him a bit but just a little bit because well I'm more than a little bit I guess but this at the end of the day he kind of just he brought a lot of it on himself like if you look in the contest Oracle context like he didn't do you as a husband should do like he here he had a very idealized view of what a husband should be as well he thought he should just love her unconditionally which he should but it was like that's all he has to do you know love is enough like I was honestly expecting some Redemption from at the end like when she kills herself you know spoiler he just like completely like just because like I tried to book I know she from her perspective he was letting himself go like she was saying you know herself and he was well even at the end in the book you like she finds her affair like they're from she's like oh maybe putana club or even he's there he's like oh I probably would've done the same as her like you know with my fault she had an affair and he doesn't like he doesn't ride the bull her dying or like take on yeah cuz you're kind of like because they have a child together and it's like you you're almost tink and that's that's like kind of the realest aspect of it like you're almost saying okay she's dead now he's gonna you know it'll be the single father and be the influence in the kid's life that it that she needs and you know rear her to be great and have a successful like future despite the debt remoter you know like in am kind of in watering heights you know the way the kids kind of then get brought and they're like they rise above the the sins of the parents but in this it's like oh no she's going to the workhouse she's going to a cotton factory to to work with cotton and you know she all her family are dead uh all of them she lives with an aunt who sent her away to a working house deaths probably as well pay everything off they send it to the motor and the motor sandwich the ads and then she goes to the cotton I like I think that's probably another character we she's hoods like Madame bovary's child like it's not there for a lot of people yeah cause she kind of sharks her responsibilities as a motor yeah even when Rudolph's like when she's like we need to run away parents like what about your kids it's really an afterthought yeah it's interesting daughter she only had one child I suppose she was kind of sickly you know when she was she would refuse to eat and ting so I think that's true yeah motorboat arrives are they they're they're glowing and you're breaking open be like with this thing we're just okay it's grad this guy yeah I think with this it was just yeah I think what this they're just saying okay we'll have her experience this supposed to be great ting straight away and have her just am you to be dissatisfied with it and so you barely see her with the child mm-hmm like even at the end like this when she's seen the kid before she dies the kids like it's so sad in yet because like the way the way she dies is like very like it's not romantic in you know in there at all it's gruesome and it's disgusting and it's painful and slow it's it's just it's very awful it's like there's just no respite for it's like it's like she lived her life she made the choices and everything bad that's gonna happen to her happens to her it's definitely like there's just no redemption you know which which is a bit like a comment on the the commentary on religion in the book you know yeah and yeah I mean we could like do you think she's a hero like injured in the traditional sense of the word you know are we are we rooting for her sure at the book I mean I wasn't like I didn't feel like to like when she first liked all the things that happened here like when she lost and her and with that she was that Rudolph gang or whatever when she was like hiding it or and she was like I think she missed tasted that first when she receives it and she's worried that and Sharons gonna find it like I wasn't feeling worried where when she was when she was like lying about getting her piano lessons and kind of getting caught with that and like questioning your on doubt I didn't I didn't feel worried when she has like all her at the end when like he's like pay me to a thousand or I'm like or you know taking yes I did not feel sorry for at all yeah yeah I didn't feel like sorry for at all I didn't feel urgent see I didn't hate her I was just kind of like okay what she yeah I supposed to I didn't like hate you okay that's true that's true I mean because there were there was definitely forces working against the bovary's you know there was a the shopkeeper Lulu he was taking all he was giving her all these debts and extending her her credit and then there was the chemist he was competing with basically Sheil for the the medical needs of the area basically so there was definitely those forces working against him but when anything where they had a lot of things going for them as well and in terms of like empathizing with her she made it very hired because she was quite dislikeable especially towards the end cuz I mean we didn't last like 30-page she just started lying I makes up all stories better Cheryl saying like oh he sees he's after racking up this debt and he's driving me away you know and stuff like that so yeah I think I think they're wanting I can get behind his like I don't know if it's even worth getting behind because it's basically like what you could call it hope but when in reality it's delusion cuz someone could say oh I'm I'm winner cuz she's so hopeful you know she never gives up hope of another life and she's always she's dreaming in her way ahead in a cloud sport isn't it really just delusion I mean yeah like a lot like especially like cuz she quickly becomes dissatisfied with she just becomes like the second marriage and as she for she briefly likes Cheryl again but then like she's like oh no he's embarrassing me again and then she falls back with him I like even there's even a scene where like she's talking with Rudolph and she's like oh do you love me and he was like yeah do you and then she like she's crying you're breaking up a bank and it's just like she's being like so dramatic and then like it's like so obvious in his letter that he sends her as well and he like it's like my connection looks bad hello I can't hear ya there's just a bit of a live in your voice it's fine can you hear me I Joe I think yeah why was saying what she when she's with yep I can't hear you do you want to refresh your yo your feed I can't hear you at all now hold on you're like laughing at this behind your video yeah you've been do not for a bit just refresh refresh can you hear me yeah a lot clearer actually yeah that's weird I don't know do you hear me and there's just a bit of a lag I think okay it's fine right so where were we I was mentioning Rudolph and hey even in her like you're talking you were talking about how like you can say she does have hope before it's really just a Lou you shouldn't even in her relationship Rudolph she's like talking about how she's old you love me have you only loved me and what acting oh no I like giannis to think I've had I haven't had people like she's like she starts crying and so then and even in his letter to her it's very clear it at least I talked to her I suppose I you get to see Rudolph's perspective as well as the reader he's very much like it's clear in his letter that like there's nothing stopping him from going with her order than him being like oh people won't approve writing I like it's like her kind of believing that he's loved her or whatever it's just like delusion and then she continues into it whip they own and she even just goes on and has another affair and somehow expects it to be any different mm-hmm and even when she's like telling him of all her troubles like once a doctor affair again neither of them like mentioned their past lovers or the fact that she had you know had him or what I are i anything like that and she just quickly becomes then like their relationship just become sour again and again and she just keeps expecting it to somehow be different yeah all the time and it's just like like she's just really deluded or how she keeps expecting like Charles just somehow turn into something like to somehow sweep her off her feet somehow or just something thou shalt find this big romance or whatever mm-hmm yeah I mean I think that just sums it up pretty much like she's not she's not a hero in a traditional sense at all basically and can you hear me okay by the way yeah yeah she's not a hero like at all in traditional sense she's just I I think I get just lends itself to the the nature of the book you're just you're really just looking at her life unfold you're just looking at that and you as a reader like you're not you can't urge it you know you can't even get behind it you're just like oh well there she is it's unfortunate but I think it's it's an interesting spin you actually don't get that in most novels do you know and I suppose is well like you know there's also the question is like you know is she just depressed like depression that's getting her and it's not like the cause of all her problems is it just a depression I like doesn't know you can read you then know back then like cuz I in this time period or at one of Charles main duties is to blood lay so that's that's kinda the medicinal standards of at the countryside you know and what do you think about like if you look at her say just as a woman of the times when I want you consider like looking at it like as a woman now and then looking at her like back then where she has so we're all women have much less liberties does it affect her story at all you know does it affect her character or your sympathy or empathy and I think there is like she kind of didn't do a lot of the things that would have been expected of women at the time like she gave up her music I think very early and she just kept giving up again and stuff like that I think in terms of her marriage I think she had more liberties than order women did because of how submissive he was well I know it was mentioned in the book that like the older woman in town just saw her trouble didn't really see her as troubled or anything like that and I suppose they didn't I don't know like looking at your like yeah she like I can imagine her being very bored like she can't leave her like she hasn't got a job or whatever she's not like doctor I think she meant she's at one point she'd like to be a nurse so yeah but it's kind of whimsical isn't it she says it very randomly yeah and then like out when she where she goes through like her religious phase like you know Cheryl come home and there's like kids at the table yeah that was that was just like funny there was a lot of humor in the book like that yes it's a lot of it where like I do get her her kind of fancy in the sense of like you know she didn't know how to occupy herself and she didn't know like like and there wasn't much she could do as a woman there was a much like independent she should be hired you didn't have a female figure well she had the knowns that's she but she didn't have like a motor figure in the house yeah and she always clashed where her mother-in-law like even her mother-in-law was like what said she'll like stop lying harissa I shouldn't be reading dead uh-huh but like I suppose you can sympathise where a situation that like is well she's much younger and has gone through more chill esta and Cheryl has at the point I suppose where she is yeah I mean the like the major team she has is that her motor died and then like the Apple she kind of gets herself into a situation very young and probably was a was like at the time and very that she can't really just leave him and it's also like a situation where like he's not bad to her in some sense like I mean in yeah in some sense he is like he's not very observant like he doesn't even know she's having affairs but um yeah like she's funny lets her away with a lot that order women of the time probably wouldn't have get in a way where like he lets her you know at the end when she's going to ruin to meet with lay on she's gone she's just going willy-nilly it's like it's quite scandalous you know and again she doesn't really care well Sharla's never cared or never questioned yeah or even when she goes they were Rudolph its when Rudolph like seduces her he's Charles like oh yeah I think to her going on a horse before lap do you thought he's just not like he's very like yeah sheared I'll do or they as she should talk to the like she should be with these people all the time or heard yeah sure I'm stay overnight you with a relay on yeah yeah you can stay I have to go well you can stay like you know so like she did have a lot more liberties than order when water hardened and I think she has power of attorney at the end oh yes like you for kind of forces Charlene to giving that word yeah and she but like there I suppose if like is there much she could've done like guac she her I've done in her situation I mean she could have made like occupied herself with order chains like she had a piano I true I know at the end she was pretending she was learning it for she didn't even like she never liked really sewing or doing or you know taking care of her child yeah you know yeah there's stop and there is yeah there is a part where like when she's giving it though and like when she's when she's trying to get her piano lessons or whatever and she's like when Runcorn she's like oh I used to play and everyone would start then criticizing Cheryl yeah I like they actually say i wanting they say which is they bring off russo and they're talking about him they say something like oh he it didn't he say that like women our motors should instruct their children like with things like this now like though educational practices which was it was weird that they were bringing that up with her for her to get like to help her when like she's not looking after her kids at all her kid at all yeah well even like she would like there she would like redecorate as well like she didn't she got very bored i suppose as well with like the house did sorry you've lived to be I at the end like even like her Jew he says like it's a woman of the house she got very bored with them at the end like they would say oh the servants can do what they want yes yeah that's true cuz then her servant ended up having like and if like with a 40 year old man or something else she has some point one of her servants Felicity she got all her yeah she still gotta close yeah yeah they just oh it's it's really like an awful story like of desperation you know um but do you tink Cheryl was like a cold postman like would you say he's a good husband or I think he Todd he was a good husband but like it's hard to tell because you're only seeing it from Emma's point of view and it's impossible to think he's a good husband from her point of view because of what she desires but she she never really asks in front of stuff you know she never asked yeah and even like yeah like like even when he did go into debt at first like when he starts you know taking over all this extra credit and stuff like it's because he wasn't working because she was sick and he was like he felt in me to constantly attend to her like when she was sick at that time and so he stopped working comedian so they had no money for that I like I it's just like he did don't on her a little off for you was awesome like just know it's weird because like he's not like he wasn't a first-rate doctor like you can't expect him to be like no but he was a doctor as well he helped people he wasn't a horrible person you know yeah I like I I you know what does she be doing when she gets like I first she just tink hi Leo demin and he he embarrasses her again that's like read likes a little Rudolph what's he doing again there tink disorders it there's a kid in the village or we're not a kid a young man in the village who has a club for and the chemist convinces him to operate on it and it's a very dangerous operate and it ends up that the the guy with the clover ends up having have his leg amputated by another doctor and it is basically humiliates him and they cause the club they taught to surgery was successful at first but then the chemist why he kind of got got his kids to do something to it or someone to do something to the cast basically and he bases sabotage Charles so that he would be humiliated as practice would decrease or decline well like de ting that kind of like Emma would see the stuff happening like she knew I was going on for him yeah all the time I like she kind of just let her happy him be humiliated all the time and like it's hard to like he wasn't a very attempt obviously she's having an affair and he doesn't know all that stuff is going on and he's also very like submissive to his motor yeah well like I it's hard thing if it's hard to say yeah he was a terrible husband I don't think he was terrible because I mean if you look at things like just very objectively he was he was a peasant of peasants you know he came from a peasant family he was a peasant he was living he was living a fine life you know we I have to death and when I as far as he was aware like because Emma never told him she just would take take ill you know in very dramatic fashion so yeah yeah I don't know how we like there from women I think we were talking about the men as well I mean we could talk they like Buddha often lay on love for you with them like they are I know we mentioned that the Strachan bull that's what Oh their wall oh I think he just dissed left I was had low connection there but we were and like we could talk about you to two men in her life as well we didn't we mentioned that they have no ambition bull yeah I mean does not love to say I mean there's I don't know I won't point Emma and Leon get it on in a carriage as they do in Paris apparently like married that was very uncharacteristic of beau at him though wasn't he but that was the first time wasn't a date yeah they consummated their affair outside of church yeah the guy was trying to get there like you're very pure rich and he's like come on let's go well and I think he was also a bit clear first appears and he's talked like when they first move and he's talking she's like asking what type of music he likes he's like oh I like German music music that like makes you dream or something like that mm-hmm so I think maybe that's why we're being like critical like it's obviously of the time you know Schumann when he was starting to Reich was very critical of Paris whenever you'd be criticizing people's compositions like uh it's to Paris its Paris's you know affecting them and all stuff like that and a lot of people at the time I think in terms of music I think a lot of people we're trying to like we're trying to get people away from Paris and an Morales make me as well because I was like yeah absent drinking prostitutes yeah sweet like I think a lot of people were critical of the culture in Paris and I think Emma becomes very obsessed with that at one point like she gets a map and she kind of sees herself walking around in it and stuff like that uh and I think she was being kind of I think at the end as well her like she's pretending she's all playing music and I think they all placed a flu and stuff like that and so at the end dare yoke is very like they're living like they're in like Parisians I suppose like she's staying in the expensive hotels assisting on staying in expensive hotels they're like their whole romance is very much built on material things like she's getting new dresses and seems like that's why when she first started you affair with him it's when Charles Charlotte's dad dies yeah so did so money and then she extends her credit it keeps going downhill basically keep going back to her yeah I mean do you think the dieting she could have done like do you think because she ends up killing herself she takes she tricks her the chemists apprentice in to give like giving her arsenic basically like do you think does I think she could have done to avoid her fate I mean or what she's a spoon from the Arts I don't know I think she could have been a bit more like she was very vulnerable when Rudolph came like he knew how to he knew like lucky I was like she's on satisfied where her husband I know what's to her like I'll start talk to her about poetry and all this crap and I'll get her and so she was very vulnerable like I I find it hard to believe that she didn't know she was being seduced that she didn't know she was being targeted and all this stuff went seems like that happened and I don't know I don't think she I don't know at the end like maybe it's cuz I just didn't sympathize with her but I don't think like and I know she said at the end she was like oh it's sharra we'll forgive me like it yeah if I know about this he will forgive she didn't like that so she because she didn't like him having any superiority over even if it was yeah yeah you know yeah it's it's kind of just like get over yourself because it's like okay so say you hadn't been able to find the morning and then sure I'll find you and they come and they start taking your stuff and all that you know they take like I don't think she needed herself to do that it's like I think was just her just not being dramatic because if she was like if it was case where she was just depressed from the get-go that's it boy I like it's hard to look at it and say that she it's I think it's I say there's there's nothing she could've done like I don't like the big King I think that she could have nothing was extend her credit like yeah she kept taking keep getting more money like I think she could have because she used to like redecorate her house a lot and I think even like a wonder necessary fashionable or no stuff like I think even like her hair is most probably love it like when you know yeah like it wasn't it wasn't necessary – she was like buying like fashionable like biomes that she needed to be a fashion it was just that she was buying Tings that she needed yeah III think like don't like you probably would have had to start out by her childhood to stop her going down that road I like did she say like not expose her to any creativity but I don't know if that would be even possible in France at the time you know like I just don't think it would be possible I think like she was done she was I think she was just always gonna be predetermined to be like a hopeless romantic and completely deluded it's it's it's like it's kind of as if she was fated to do it you know which is kind of against this the the spirit of the book yeah I mean she wants someone who did like you know music she had like music subscriptions to find I know what to start she didn't want them rich became like like sick of it all and she was like you know well educated and also if she had like some creative outlet or something to pursue yeah like that would have been good but at the time like was there anything she as a woman could've done like she wouldn't have been allowed to just like I know there's a lot happening in Paris at the time where women and stuff like that for Ambrose Odin she wasn't really exposed but then like being a woman as well like she see seem to feel like if she became a bourgeois or a Porsche was she would be her problem will still need to spare like like i tink that even if she became you know one of the fancy women she would have still had the exact same problem I don't think she would have been satisfied with the balls you know she when she went to that the the ball damn the the Marquis house I I don't think she would have liked being a Marchioness I don't she would have been happy I think she would have wanted higher like I think even if she was the queen of France she would not have been happy you know cuz she cause she wouldn't she would have hated her husband she wouldn't have liked the king she would have taken her to had affairs she would have fallen in and out of love with them she would have taken more she would have put herself in today you know she would have spent the Treasury and she would have ended up losing her head church you know I mean she was doing a lot like I Jerry self-destructive I know and I think if I were it's definitely making us think that as well like he's being extremely critical of her because like she's doing everything that would have like cause it is like post revolution in France in France as well and we're like you know like if you were shown that you were at all burst while I was extremely looked down on like I know even in like the concert halls people stopped you know clapping in between like when they heard a great note or anything like that everyone's supposed to be more reserved on more you know mm-hmm like respectful and she was just acting like very shameful like all the time like just and I I do think it's like she was doing from the star and I think flavor its libraries trying to like show us that mm-hmm like like like you said even if she became the queen of like France she wouldn't have been satisfied like yeah yeah it's just she's just a character you know that's just her character it's just her gondor's people like that you know especially like a lot of the artists and musicians and the the people of toss around a period of time who had you know who were he were actually free who were tinker's loved and we're men but you know who end up killing themselves or having tragic lives the sense of dissatisfaction like in a way he did kind of like like us reading her her her oh man to her life she romanticized to herself she were mad sighs her own life for herself without even realizing it kind of like being so automatic but only buddy maintained that drama for her whole life did it become a drama at the end you know yeah I know even at the very start I think she's saying to like one of her servants like when she first starts getting dissatisfied she's like she says we're servants oh you have no trouble you know she's she says to her sir it's her servant like or something and she's saying you have no troubles I'm the right person you're serving well you don't have any trouble it's like yeah and like it's high cause like if she wanted to be one of those you know free tinker's like but the only really women who could do that at the time we're like rich one no and you had one yeah yeah I mean we could talk forever a bit like all her different aspects I think it's definitely worried yeah I mean I suppose because of her character I I can see it being difficult to adopt because it's ah yeah cause like you wanted you want like cuz even like me reading it like whenever I ancient bad whenever she had something like tranny or like someone finding out very fair I think like I didn't care I didn't like feel sorry for I wasn't like worried for her so I can't imagine adopting that interlock and eating it like for the audience to feel yeah cuz our audience has to come to relate to the characters and you have to have a kind of a Hollywood lead and I mean she is relatable but like I just can't like I I didn't care like I didn't I wasn't sucked like I feel like you know me is like I don't I think it's very hard for an actress to carry all the negativity yes not true a scene but true an entire movie and expect the people to come out feeling fulfilled you know I think people still go to movies to feel at a fantasy and because it's I think this variety I think if you make a film out of it if you don't you're kind of it's cause because flow Barre is known for his realism if you don't stick to that realism you're doing the book and injustice but then if you do stiff that realism that's gonna be a depressing as folk film you know yeah like there's no redemption for the characters like and you're not even less no I was expecting my share but like you're not expecting her halfway through the book to change her ways like you're not expecting her to have a realization like you can just see her running herself like you can see her just going towards this like yeah and and so a cat I suppose it can be hard to like it like you can't really adapt that into like a movie because like no like she's she's just such a difficult like she is relatable you do like IT especially this time she's definitely relatable what she's not you want to read for I mean I'm looking for a happening for I think it's doable I think you could definitely do it but can you make money off is the question you know yeah I mean maybe you could do a play out there for yeah that's true there probably is for more used more used to tragedy enough yeah you kind of get away with it a bit more because more artsy people go to end there they're basically Madame bovary's you know they're mini madame borova is going to see some tragedy in their life yeah I mean she be an opera sleek that perfect and yeah yeah it's just only because like that's when she kind of reawakened star self as long as you go it's the operable like oh god yeah do you think like I suppose like for finishing no we can just like or like you think we should like have a finishing though now or anything as you want to discuss before I mean I'm just gonna ask like him does a hole is it relevant today like there's a hole dope in today's society or Jews is there anything else you want to touch on before that um I don't think so I think just if it holds off I suppose I mean I know you think it does I think it does cause like Madame Bovary is like representing social media culture essentially like she's representing the formal like we're like when there's people like yeah like say Instagram and stuff people are looking at people are only showing the good parts their lives you know and like these glamorous pictures and you want more but then every time you see someone getting famous and there's another Instagram drama their lives is not a theme surprise surprise they have troubles they're depressed they're going to therapy you know and I feel like it's it's basically that situation but except that happens nearly to everyone now it's being shows on everyone and like that's Beth I I think you know no we aren't running into you know a chemist's lockers and stuffing our stick down our throats but you know it's like no no we're doing what are harmful things know people are getting two more surgery they're going on crash diets they're doing theirs they're wasting all their money on clothes on the quick minute stuff you know they're not living realistic lives so I think it's super relevant actually you know I think we Ronnie realist novel it's always gonna hold up because it's it's it's real you know it's based in real isn't it like there's no cliche there's no and like metaphors are avoided things like that or orange and what's what's the word I forget the word like no no no mysticism you know it's all just like real what do you think yeah I think honestly when I first read it I finished it I was like skipping I was like I was like I was just so I think just frustrated with it I was like you know skip out I don't think I think they're a better there's better media out there that kind of shows people looking at living in their fantasy worlds well like when you compare it to like Instagram culture and it's like an FOMO and stuff like that it does I think it is more realistic than anything else what kind of show I think in that sense it does hold up because like madame bovary it's like you know someone just looking at all these people with their great lives and she doesn't have the same things to back up these great lives like you see out like you know you're saying you see all these people with all these Instagram influencers all these people you find when something bad happens you find out oh they do have you know they're going to therapy or they have these issues well like you know the normal person watching someone trying to replicate that life doesn't have access to therapy doesn't have the funds to be able to yeah to back us up and I think that's where she doesn't have she's trying to replicate this life or achieve this life and she doesn't have the things that she needs to because she's just a normal like person like she doesn't have the things to back that up and I think just do realism ah but I think just because even at the end like yeah when you look at at the end like the fact that like Bert is just left with her what all did struggles like you know matter go yeah she like Bert which is like she gets at like she's supposed to like she has to pay for her parents just wrongdoing there were mentions like there's she can't deal with it and like she hasn't done anything wrong and she just still has to go and they work in a cotton factory like with some and it's so sad like the ending is really depressing and it kind of just hits you hard all in one page like it reminds me of an Battle Royale remember remember day forget her name meats go oh yeah like that I'm where her like his whole life stories told it one page and it's like oh I get it except that happens at the very last page with their daughter Barret and basically it's like yeah and all these horrible teams happened to her right away yeah and all the bad people in town good things happens to them I know Annie which color girls – there was it there was like there was a shred of like anti-religion in the book kind of like there was a chemist who openly mocked it and it was his cure a which is like a French priest I like they would like Beeker about a boy the chemist always had the more intellectual arguments I found um I found that at the end was kind of a mockery I think this happened then what was it it was there was a power like where she's praying and then something ridiculous happens and it's just like oh let me see if I can quickly find it why what'd you talk about well one thing that I talk just thinking of it's like birds his name a peasant's for like she's a woman and i know'd up yeah when madame bovary first gives birth to she's like she hoped she has a son because she's like oh if I have a son he'll be able to do all this stuff and you kind of see that even like Cheryl came from a peasant um home and he was still able to become a doctor and do all this stuff I live a pretty I know like decent what could have lived a pretty decent life but like birth doesn't even have that option which is your side cuz like she's a woman she just has to go work in the cotton factory it's not as if she can go and sit the medical exam like three times or whatever yeah which just makes him more depressed okay which is I suppose realistic is like you know at the end after like Madame Bovary and Cheryl lived there like fantasy lives and all which is also like after you see like and I suppose tying it today after see all these people living there fancy lives and all they can go off and get help or get the phones and still live their life with the people trying to you demo replicate that can't do de and they're just left with their shitty situation you know yeah I found a pirate it was them do the gravedigger less steel st boudoir here he was grown potatoes in the cemetery yeah and he was like em they're saying oh you're living off the dead like because he was like he was like oh he's doing a good you know good deed he's like oh look how green why you know my yolks are he's like you're living off the dead you know it's yeah it's making a mockery like growing potatoes in a cemetery and then I know all the conversations about religion and basically like God seems to have no presence in any of these lies or or am divine intervention which lends to the realism there's nothing like that nothing yeah and like even like Emma starts in the convent and like true they can't like and she's young and they can't do anything about or like you know yeah and even like an even dicey like you know Emma's helping orphans like why do we find a humorous you know like yeah I don't know I think as well you want to talk about translate just briefly sure cuz we read what yeah ready what's her what son or my Eleanor Marx I think later Eleanor Marx Avery evening Eleanor Marx Avila evening whatever it is and there's like so 86 sorry translated in 1886 yeah like I think this like it was definitely translated for a British audience like in like the english-speaking audience would have been you know just a british wouldn't have been the Irish you know still the British and like it's the peasants yeah I think it's I don't like it person I don't like this translation and dr. Franz again like everything yeah it's them there's there's a few teens dire without word I've been Kona culturally translate so like a 1-point des mate wash which is in the French version but then is translated like to finger glasses or something in English and then a few things like beetles flies and like I won't point it like the shape of her nose is completely different in the French version an English version I'm like no the French version is trying to idealize her this is this is No so just a few things like that I think just like just say on translation I think is always worth to read it and if you can read it in the original language and just be aware that when you read a translation you're you're putting a lot of trust into the translator for an e language yeah so this is Karl Marx his daughter yeah just to beware so that might that could also affect no I think she I think it's like not awful you know there's just a few things that I was like wow and then you look over the French pair like okay it's a bit different what did you think of our covers I know it's not you don't judge a book by it's cover well and like I didn't did not imagine my cover or your corner as Madame Bovary no no it's like my voice is real modern I know she's blonde and stuff in mine but mine she looks very like you know Michelle's black and chic and I don't think like the the air that this painting gives off I don't think gives off the same air as Madame Bovary no I don't think so either to be honest they wonder if it was like a painting off Madame Bovary / – why was I had like ministrations and stuff in mine as well like I don't know if you had can I see them and I think this is when this is supposed to be can you see that yeah I think this is Charlie or the end going that I think it was a lot more unattractive than at the end oh I think there's when he finds her letters I think but even there is still for like her this is her like there there were a few and weird ones like this is her and when she's at getting a change for Leon at one point oh my like and she looks very like dreamy like proper hourglass like well yeah I had less weird and that's nice weird like I had weird illustrations in mind that I didn't think we're accurate you know a French half half English yeah I think it's very there's one of her just being like depressed I think she's wishing it's when she's wishing Charles will be earth well yeah I just had a weird addition I got nice pictures yeah yeah so you had a very modern cover yeah it's not I don't like it reminds me a bit of them do you think you could do a Madame Bovary and liked it 20th century or whatever or just funny for this watching a tire cuz it's very easy for like a woman in France say to him to emancipate herself you know she its I'm not gonna say very easy it can't be don't yeah it can't be done boy yeah I don't think you gain anything by fire I think you lose a lot by changing the time period yeah I think you lose a lot yeah so I'd rather was cuz I love cuz a big aspect of this was the peasant life as well you know this was well flow bear you so I think it was that was nice you know and it was a lot a lot of very nice writing you know I just on this subject of the writing it's very nice writing you know it's very nice very poetic I mean he was a recluse yeah I'd like to even like the English translation are some very very nice and you know like descriptions the colors and all it's very I find it very pretty I didn't ice one of my flies drank drowning or splashing insider I have that one say I have a whole like list of the ones I like oh man I really I really like me I don't know why I just hope it's a really nice one this there's like a lot of nice you know quotes some flies on the table were crawling off the glass had been used I'm buzzing as they drained themselves in the dregs of cider I like you know it's it's very because it's yeah it's very vivid yeah I don't know I have like little notes I like just on the pages and I don't know why I ha I wrote like a little piece of paper what does this one say it's mad scribblings uh I have the post-its I slipped them together why did I do that it's lip it the Oh little feathers what does something very little feathers here I'll just find this cuz it was a nice one I mean one passage I while you know come on I like I know it sounds bad boy well I like when where she was like oh how ugly my child is like she it wasn't even it wasn't even like how strange my child is how I want unusual was like my child is all girly like you know yeah and she never showed much love to it you know to her no I know Cheryl did he played with her and stuff when she was sick or where is done uh I don't know it's somewhere there but I can't find on that page as you have it later if you find it lost on Instagram Oh God yeah you take that you know the way they were was a bit of a recluse yeah at times do you take that yeah but you think that that and kind of gave a good depiction of just her boredom and or do you think that there were certain things that weren't realistic because of a I don't know cuz like it's kind of like you're like what could she do like there are some stuff she could do but if none of those things delighted you what could you do I mean yeah but then again like do order women were probably thinking the same team but they were getting along with their lives you know they didn't give into depression so I I'm not sure yeah there's definitely like a lot of nice tattoo bull coats and stuff Reena like a lot of nice or RM things to put on tumblr you know like aesthetic Tings definitely yeah there's I take another description thing that she had is when she first becomes dissatisfied with her yoke she says she talked out I think what will means by love is Felicity passion and rapture yeah like which I mean she was definitely sticking to it's very dramatic yeah I'm just looking through datang as I like posted it and I'm like why did I do that did you add a little posters to them with you you know I have like purple post-its all over the book and I'm like why did I posted this anyways we could do that all day yeah will we give it who am i suppose we can end it there any final talks my notes I don't know I don't know why are your final note um no no by would just say read the book I do recommend it I recommend research your translation for sure and and look for the one that's like the most I don't know many drones but look for the most one that's hot most highly rated by M translators themselves cuz there's I am there's a lot of interesting conversations about I've read a lot of a like pages just dedicated to the translation of this book and it's quite controversial you know interesting off the woman who translated dish she died in a very similar way to Madame Bovary she poisoned she yeah she poisoned herself I have just one order on a panic panic kind of haunted her as well her translation so I have one hurting do tink if you read this at a different time in your life if you think like say this had it been an assigned reading in school you think you would have looked at it differently or say if you read it again in in order few years like your Therese are some things you can kill yeah I think if I had to read it like before my college years I would have had a lot less troubles in my life Michael I think it would have served as warning you know I think anyone should read this well it's hard for kids to read you know because kids are getting into like this Instagram culture so early but I think if you could the message should be relayed I think there is a message in it should be relayed that's my fight yeah I think if I read I think if I read when I was younger I would have probably have had a lot more sympathy for true yeah like I think I suppose being older and more wiser yeah she doesn't give off wisdom you know yeah so yeah I do think there is it is we're reading I do think you know like when you run off to all over they like Instagram and social media culture and stuff like that I do tink it does hold a lot of relevance ter mm-hmm like so I think it is worth a read and a sense yeah I think we could revisit this book for sure like for purity from purity like literary perspective I like pick at the quotes we like and stuff like that you know I think I think as well like I think sometimes where before I read it I was definitely and misinformed I suppose by other people's by really big like you know feminist editing from this yeah like I was expecting more topical I was is well I mean I thought it was considered very very feminist novel war yeah and I'm sure some people there are some people who probably do fewer as that feminist questions just questions to be asked but I felt like the bigger question was more of a like the bigger yoke was the burgeois kind of change like like which I wasn't expecting it's more like I know Paris was and France was like that at the time but I wasn't expecting that sorted like I'm Bovary to be very much driven by love cuz like I knew she was going to have affairs and stuff yeah in a but I didn't they were going to be expect to be such like you know passionate already yeah like I ain't fully into her passions like you've heard ah yeah I think if you are if she had of been a man yeah I I still think she would have had the same fate she would have still died well she might have had something show free you know she whatever like instance I talked or something you know she would have been able to you know she might have any great artists you know she would have still died tragically and killed herself probably and had many affairs but I think she might have had something left to show for written the novel travels been an adventure and explore or something like this you know well yeah I think if you are looking to read it don't be too like don't be too swayed by well like your first impressions of it before you even like look into reading it don't like if don't be expecting like be open to what you're gonna get from it don't be expecting when I read the plot of the recent movie very well in 2014 or something on its it is completely it's awful so don't let that inform your opinion of it either yeah I think go into this like I think going in tomorrow and go over you just with a like blank I mean obviously if you're going into a based on our recommendation you're not going into it a blank perspective but I think like I think you will get something different from it if you think you're only gonna get wanting from I think your guests something there's those laughs to be gone from it just lows expect I think if you're I think if you're French there's something that it'll be special more maybe more special for it you know cuz you're looking at a bit it's kind of a little historical as well they probably learn it all in school I don't know I mean if you're probably reading it in like the original language like it's probably nicer yeah for sure oh yeah I suppose we can we could leave it there merci all right next next month oh yeah next what we're gonna read them Catcher in the Rye dig there Catcher in the Rye I don't know Catcher in the Rye / The Catcher in the Rye and we're going on a lot of reading lists and stuff I know yeah yeah it's common in our country so it's a very it's a very young um protagonist as well yeah like he's a Randy Age of people he won't be reading it yes so we're gonna aim to do that on the last Friday of August which is eternity so we're gonna aim for that will we're gonna upload this probably if Annie wants to look at the the contents pod yeah I know we'll put the defiant confirmation of time and I'll at some point okay all right you go by I have to end this dream but just keep waiting like wavy happy kidding

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